Ich bin so unentschlossen

Hi,
Ich spiele jetzt schon seit Jahren meine Sanguinius Children. Jetzt hab ich mir den den neuen Codex geholt und bin auf den Regeltext gestoßen das ich Verbündetenkontingente aus dem gleichen Kodex wählen darf. Ich spiele tatsächlich schon seit der 5. Edition mit der Idee eine zweite Space Marines Armee anzufangen und zwar diesmal eine offizielle.
Zur Wahl stehen Hawk Lords, Praetors of Orpheus, White Scars, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Imperial Fist und Black Templar.
Die zweite Armee soll als Ergänzung dienen für meine Sanguinius Children die ich nach den Regeln der Iron Hands spiele.
Ich brauche da echt Entscheidungshilfe.

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Zitat von DickerOrk

was ist dir wichtig? spielstärke, farbschema, fluff?

Tatsächlich ist das eine Mischung von allem. Bei der Raven Guard, den Salamander und den White Scars gefällt mir der Hintergrund. Bei den Ultramarines mag ich das Farbschema. Bei der Imperial Fist die Armeezusammenstellung und bei den Templer die Modelle.

@Otomo das man sowas auf Turnieren macht hab ich auch schon gehört. Ist für mich allerdings völlig inakzeptabel, da Ultramarines nicht plötzlich White Scars sein können und Reubaut Gulliaume sich bei solchen gebahren seines Ordens vermutlich auch in seiner Cryokammer umdrehen würde.

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Zitat von Volth

Dann spiel doch Deathwatch oder nen Kreuzzug.

Deathwatch wäre da durchaus auch eine da die aus allen Orden rekrutieren. Gibt es da irgendwie die Möglichkeit vorher mal reinzuschnuppern.
Eine andere ähnliche Idee kam mir auch schon, da ich ja X Verbündeten Kontingente haben darf.

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Zitat von Otomo

Das darfst du nicht falsch verstehen, die Sanguinius Children sind der einzige Blood Angels Nachfolge Orden der den Roten Durst und die Schwarze Wut überwunden hat, dafür oder deswegen nun aber ein Faible für Farhzeugtunning und Body Modifikation entwickelt hat.

Richtig, deswegen spiele ich sie seit der ersten Minute nach Space Marines Codex. Leider werde ich seit der sechsten Edition gezwungen Ordenstaktiken zu wählen, worüber ich mich natürlich nicht beschwere. Im Gegenzug verzichte ich auch auf die teilweise sehr coolen BA Einheiten.

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Zitat von Schreckensfürst Eleborn

Suche dir doch einen Orden der dir gefällt , der aber keiner der Ursprünglichen Legionen zugeteilt werden kann damit du dir dann einfach eine nach Situation wählen kannst für deinen neuen Orden. Wenn du uns Farben nennst findet sich sicher was.

Ich verstehe nicht ganz was du meinst. Ich habe ja eben eine solche Armee und würde jetzt gerne was offizielles spielen.
Im Moment liegen aber die Salamander recht weit vorne.
Gibt's im Angel of death Supplement eigentlich ne liste mit der Sprungmodule die taktischen ablösen wie Biker wenn man nen captian auf Bike hat?
Wenn nicht ist die Raven Guard zumindest schon mal raus.

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Welche Orden könnten denn zu den Salamander gehören?

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Gehören die Black Dragons nicht zu den Legion of the lost an the damned weil ihre Gensaat instabil ist?

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Ich denke die Salamander haben das Rennen schon gemacht. Durch die Geschichte mit dem Feuersalamander kann man schön umbauen und bemalen. Der Hintergrund ist fluffig und passt gut zu der Ordenstaktik.
Ich hab da mal ne erste 1000 Punkte Liste erträumt die meine Basis für die Armee darstellen soll.
+++ Salamander (1000pts) +++

++ Space Marines: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1000pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Chapter Tactics [Salamanders]
····Rules: Feel No Pain, Flamecraft, Master Artisans

+ HQ (305pts) +

Librarian (115pts) [Mastery Level 2 (25pts)]
····Rules: And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics *, Independant Character
····Terminator Armour (25pts) [Force Sword]
····Profiles:
········Librarian: Unit Type:Infantry (Character)|WS:5|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:2|I:4|A:2|Ld:10|Save:+2
········Psychic Hood: Description:Each Time a unit (or model) is targeted by an enemy psychic power and is within 12" of a frieldly model with a psychic hood, the wearer may attempt to deny the witch as if he were in the unit. If the Deny The Witch attempt is failed, the psychic power is resolved as normal, but effects only the initial target, not the wearer of the hood. If a model with a psychic hood is embarked in a vehicle or building, he can only use the hood to nullify powers targeting the vehicle or building he is embarked within.|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p26
········Force Sword: Range:-|Strength:User|AP:3|Type:Melee, Force|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p178

Vulkan He'stan (190pts) [Bolt Pistol, Gauntlet of the Forge, Spear of Vulkan]
····Rules: And They Shall Know no Fear, Independant Character, The Forgefather
····Profiles:
········Vulkan He'stan: Unit Type:Infantry (Character)|WS:6|BS:5|S:4|T:4|W:3|I:5|A:3|Ld:10|Save:2+
········Digital Weapons Description:A model armed with digital weapons can re-roll a single failed to wound roll in each assault phase.|Codex Adeptus Astartes p194
········Kesare's Mantle: Description:Kesare's Mantle confers a 3+ invulnerable save.
········Bolt Pistol: Range:12"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Pistol|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Frag Grenades: Range:8"|Strength:3|AP:-|Type:Assault 1, Blast, Don't suffer Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p180
········Heavy Flamer: Range:Template|Strength:5|AP:4|Type:Assault 1|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Krak Grenades: Range:8" (thrown) / - (Melee)|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 1 (Thrown) / Only on Vehicles, gun emplacements or Monstrous Creatures (Melee)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Spear of Vulkan: Range:-|Strength:+2|AP:3|Type:Melee, Master-crafted, Two-handed

+ Elites (150pts) +

Sternguard Veteran Squad (150pts)
····Rules: And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics *, Combat Squads
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-flamer (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-flamer (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta (10pts)]
····Veteran (32pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta (10pts)]
····Veteran Sergeant (22pts) [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Profiles:
········Veteran: Unit Type:Infantry|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Save:3+
········Veteran Sergeant: Unit Type:Infantry (Character)|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:2|Ld:9|Save:3+
········Bolt Pistol: Range:12"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Pistol|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Boltgun: Range:24"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Combi-flamer: Range:24" (Bolter)/ Template (Flamer)|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire (Bolter)/ Assault 1, One Use Only (Flamer)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Combi-melta: Range:24" (Bolter)/ 12" (Melta)|Strength:4 (Bolter)/ 8 (Melta)|AP:5 (Bolter) / 1 (Melta)|Type:Rapid Fire (Bolter) / Assault 1, Melta, One Use Only (Melta)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Frag Grenades: Range:8"|Strength:3|AP:-|Type:Assault 1, Blast, Don't suffer Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p180
········Krak Grenades: Range:8" (thrown) / - (Melee)|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 1 (Thrown) / Only on Vehicles, gun emplacements or Monstrous Creatures (Melee)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Special Issue Ammunition - Dragonfire Bolt: Range:24"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire, Ignores Cover
········Special Issue Ammunition - Hellfire Round: Range:24"|Strength:1|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire, Poisoned (2+)
········Special Issue Ammunition - Kraken Bolt: Range:30"|Strength:4|AP:4|Type:Rapid Fire
········Special Issue Ammunition - Vengeance Round: Range:18"|Strength:4|AP:3|Type:Rapid Fire, Gets Hot

+ Troops (390pts) +

Tactical Squad (195pts) [Meltagun (10pts), 9x Space Marines (126pts)]
····Rules: And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics *, Combat Squads
····Space Marine Sergeant (59pts) [Combi-flamer (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Thunder Hammer (30pts)]
····Profiles:
········Space Marine Sergeant: Unit Type:Infantry (Character)|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Save:3+
········Space Marines: Unit Type:Infantry|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Save:3+
········Bolt Pistol: Range:12"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Pistol|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Boltgun: Range:24"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Combi-flamer: Range:24" (Bolter)/ Template (Flamer)|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire (Bolter)/ Assault 1, One Use Only (Flamer)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Frag Grenades: Range:8"|Strength:3|AP:-|Type:Assault 1, Blast, Don't suffer Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p180
········Krak Grenades: Range:8" (thrown) / - (Melee)|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 1 (Thrown) / Only on Vehicles, gun emplacements or Monstrous Creatures (Melee)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Melta Bombs: Range:-|Strength:8|AP:1|Type:Armourbane, Unwieldly|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Meltagun: Range:12"|Strength:8|AP:1|Type:Assault 1, Melta|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p177
········Thunder Hammer: Range:-|Strength:x2|AP:2|Type:Melee, Concussive, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p179

Tactical Squad (195pts) [Meltagun (10pts), 9x Space Marines (126pts)]
····Rules: And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics *, Combat Squads
····Space Marine Sergeant (59pts) [Combi-flamer (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Thunder Hammer (30pts)]
····Profiles:
········Space Marine Sergeant: Unit Type:Infantry (Character)|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Save:3+
········Space Marines: Unit Type:Infantry|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Save:3+
········Bolt Pistol: Range:12"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Pistol|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Boltgun: Range:24"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Combi-flamer: Range:24" (Bolter)/ Template (Flamer)|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire (Bolter)/ Assault 1, One Use Only (Flamer)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Frag Grenades: Range:8"|Strength:3|AP:-|Type:Assault 1, Blast, Don't suffer Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p180
········Krak Grenades: Range:8" (thrown) / - (Melee)|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 1 (Thrown) / Only on Vehicles, gun emplacements or Monstrous Creatures (Melee)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Melta Bombs: Range:-|Strength:8|AP:1|Type:Armourbane, Unwieldly|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Meltagun: Range:12"|Strength:8|AP:1|Type:Assault 1, Melta|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p177
········Thunder Hammer: Range:-|Strength:x2|AP:2|Type:Melee, Concussive, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p179

+ Heavy Support (155pts) +

Devastator Squad (155pts) [Armorium Cherub (5pts), 4x Multi-melta (40pts), 4x Space Marines (56pts)]
····Rules: And They Shall Know no Fear, Chapter Tactics *, Combat Squads
····Space Marine Sergeant (54pts) [Combi-flamer (10pts), Signum, Thunder Hammer (30pts)]
····Profiles:
········Space Marine Sergeant: Unit Type:Infantry (Character)|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Save:3+
········Space Marines: Unit Type:Infantry|WS:4|BS:4|S:4|T:4|W:1|I:4|A:1|Ld:8|Save:3+
········Signum Description:At the start of the Shooting phase, a model with a signum can choose to use it instead of shooting. If he does so, one model in his unit is Ballistic Skill 5 for the remainder of the Shooting phase. Declare that the signum is being used before any rolls To hit are made.|Codex Adeptus Astartes p195
········Bolt Pistol: Range:12"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Pistol|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Boltgun: Range:24"|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Combi-flamer: Range:24" (Bolter)/ Template (Flamer)|Strength:4|AP:5|Type:Rapid Fire (Bolter)/ Assault 1, One Use Only (Flamer)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p176
········Frag Grenades: Range:8"|Strength:3|AP:-|Type:Assault 1, Blast, Don't suffer Initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p180
········Krak Grenades: Range:8" (thrown) / - (Melee)|Strength:6|AP:4|Type:Assault 1 (Thrown) / Only on Vehicles, gun emplacements or Monstrous Creatures (Melee)|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p181
········Multi Melta: Range:24"|Strength:8|AP:1|Type:Heavy 1, Melta|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p177
········Thunder Hammer: Range:-|Strength:x2|AP:2|Type:Melee, Concussive, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy|Warhammer 40,00: The Rules p179

++ Selection Rules ++

And They Shall Know no Fear: A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule automatically passes Fear and Regroup tests. When it Regroups, the unit does not make the 3" Regroup move, but can instead move, shoot (or Run) and declare charges normally in that turn.

Furthermore, if a unit containing one or more models with this special rule is caught by a Sweeping Advance, they are not destroyed, but remain locked in combat instead.
Chapter Tactics *
Combat Squads: A full strength, ten-man unit with this special rule can break down into two five-man units, called combat squads, considered to be two five-man squads of the same type. For example, a ten-man Tactical Squad can split into two five-man Tactical Squads using the Combat Squads special rule.

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads, and which models go into each combat squad, immediately before determining your Warlord Traits. A unit split into combat squads therefore is now two separate units for all game purposes, including calculating the total number of units in the army and determining the number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with deployment as normal. In an exception to the normal rules, two combat squads split from the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle, providing its Transport Capacity allows. Once you have decided whether or not to split a unit into combat squads, it must remain that way for the entire battle. It cannot split up or join back together later on in the battle, nor can you use a redeployment to split up a unit or join it back together.

Note that Bike Squads count as being at full strength when they have eight Space Marine Bikers and one Attack Bike. If split into combat squads, one combat squad will have five Bikers, the other will have three and the Attack Bike.
Feel No Pain: When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound, it can make a special Feel No Pain roll to avoid being wounded (this is not a saving throw and so can be used against attacks that state that ‘no saves of any kind are allowed’, for example those inflicted by Perils of the Warp).

Feel No Pain saves may not be taken against Destroyer attacks or against unsaved Wounds that have the Instant Death special rule.

Roll a D6 each time an unsaved Wound is suffered. On a 4 or less, you must take the Wound as normal. On a 5+, the unsaved Wound is discounted – treat it as having been saved.

If a unit has the Feel No Pain special rule with a number in brackets afterwards –Feel No Pain (6+), for example – then the number in brackets is the D6 result needed to discount the Wound.
Flamecraft: Salamanders models have the Feel No Pain (4+) special rule against Wounds caused by flamer weapons (as defined in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules). Furthermore, when using flamer weapons, Salamanders models can re-roll failed To Wound rolls and armour penetration rolls that do not result in a glancing or penetrating hit. (Codex: Space Marines p190)
Independant Character: Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot, however, join units that contain vehicles or Monstrous Creatures. They can join other Independent Characters, though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!

Joining and Leaving a Unit
An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining. If an Independent Character does not intend to (or cannot) join a unit, it must (where possible) remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase. This is to make clear whether they have joined a unit or not. Note that, after an Independent Character joins a unit, that unit can move no further that Movement phase.

An Independent Character can leave a unit during the Movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. He cannot join or leave during any other phase – once shots are fired or charges are declared, it is too late to join in or duck out!

An Independent Character cannot leave a unit while either he or the unit is in Reserves, locked in combat, Falling Back or has Gone to Ground. He cannot join a unit that is in Reserves, locked in combat or Falling Back. If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase.
While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

Look Out, Sir
Independent Characters pass Look Out, Sir rolls on a 2+.

Heroic Morale
A unit that contains one or more Independent Characters does not need a double 1 to Regroup if reduced to below 25% of its starting numbers, but instead tests as if it had at least 25% remaining.

Special Rules
When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit. Special rules that are conferred to the unit only apply for as long as the Independent Character is with them.

Independent Characters and Infiltrate
An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

Independent Characters and Ongoing Effects
Sometimes, a unit that an Independent Character has joined will be the target of a beneficial or harmful effect, such as those bestowed by the Blind special rule, for example. If the character leaves the unit, both he and the unit continue to be affected by the effect, so you’ll need to mark the character accordingly.

For example, Farseer Mehiledrin and his unit of Eldar Guardians are set ablaze by a weapon with the Soul Blaze special rule. If Mehiledrin leaves the unit, both he and the Guardians will still be ablaze and the ongoing effects of the Soul Blaze rule must be resolved separately.

Conversely, if an Independent Character joins a unit after that unit has been the target of an ongoing effect (or joins a unit after himself having been the target of an ongoing effect) benefits and penalties from that effect are not shared.

For example, Crimson Fists Tactical Squad Hemanez is suffering the effects of the Blind special rule. If Captain Cruiz joins the unit, he does not suffer the results of the Blind special rule as he was not there when it happened!
Master Artisans: During army selection, each Salamanders character may upgrade one of his weapons (even one purchased as an upgrade, but not a Chapter Relic or Relic of Nocturne) to have the Master-Crafted special rule (Codex: Space Marines p190)
The Forgefather: If Vulkan He'stan is your Warlord, all meltaguns, combi-meltas and multi-meltas fired by models in his Detachment have the Master-crafted special rule.

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Danke für die Tipps. Der Devastator Serg mit Hammer war auch so eine Überlegung wo ich mich überwinden musste weil ich es für verschwendete Punkte halte.
Das mit den Rhinos sehe ich auch so. Und die Multimeter hab ich das erste mal wieder in einer Liste.
Das ganze hab ich aber eher als Themenarmee zur Unterstützung meiner 15k starken Hauptarmee gedacht. Hammer=Schmied, Multimeter und Kombiflammenwerfer=Salamander und mit Vulkan klingt das sogar ganz sexy finde ich. Rhinos könnte ich später noch dazu holen.
Der Scriptor soll auf pyromantie würfeln.

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