MSU-Battle-Reports (English)

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Lore of Death would be nice... but i cant quite see the sorceress on a steed. And without one she is too slow to be really good with those snipers. No unit of riders is big enough to be a carrier and her protection would consume addiational points. Wouldn't know where to get them. But i see your point... I'll think about it.

  • My thinking is that your Chars do really need a RxB :D


    Every game I had so far... I missed them on my characters. There are so many situations where I just shuffled them around and waited for a chance to attack. In these situations two shots on 2+ might be really fun.


    Your core choices are different to what I usually take. I don`t play the dreadshards but use more witches (10ish or 14ish). For shooting I really like shades. Playing two units of five riders, two of five warlocks and two of five shades is really fun. First turn is beginning and half of your army might be in the deployment zone of your opponent.


    Just some things to think about. The rest looks pretty good in my opinion.

    Universal Battle: Aemkei81


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    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Aem_Kei ()

    • Offizieller Beitrag

    well... in this list, there is no place for Xbows on Chars....


    I got 10 Riders and 30 Shards. Thats 40 Xbows wich equals 60 shooters. With those two Reapers i got 80 and thats maximum in Comnbat 8.


    Shadows are better at shooting and no good in close combat. Their strength has gone up, with asf and great-weapons but 5 attacks is just not enough on most targets.
    But i never really tried this. Might just be, the shards are not good enough. But still, i can launch about 80 bolts per round. That should give me a large advantage, because i can clear of enemy hunters quite fast. even big ones like chimera should fall to the two fighters. Only Problem are things like DemonPrinces and such....
    I have four units of quick riders and four small killers. With your setup i'd reduce modell and unit number, wouldn't i? So i'd be giving up advantages in deployment and "just" get less bolts with higher accuracy. I don't know about that. I actually mean that... i really don't know. More witches could be nice, but i'm not keen about relying on them too much.
    What i'd really like would be more riders. Might just kick one unit of shards out and get another 5 dark riders. I'll loose some shooting attacke, but get more pressure in the movement phase. I like riders better than shades for that.... they are just faster and harder to kill.

  • With those two Reapers i got 80 and thats maximum in Comnbat 8.


    You`re right. It was just a point to think about. If you use the RxBs you should drop some Darkshards and use Shades instead. That`s what I would do.


    Your army is really good in shooting but my experiences are that even in MSU you need CC-units. I think you should try your list - I don`t want you to change anything but I would appreciate if you share your results with me and talk about my above mentioned ideas afterwards.


    E: shades are nice warmachine hunters with two HW

    Universal Battle: Aemkei81


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    • Offizieller Beitrag

    I know about shades and as i said, they've certainly gone up with the new book. I'm just not shure if i need more warmashine-hunters. I have two flyers an four units of riders. That should be enough, unless the enemy is relying heavily on them. And i still dont like shades cc-abillities. Riders are faster in combat and less likely to die. They may reroll most to hit dices and are almost as strong. I'd really rather build in more riders. My experiments with shades did not go that well. They tend to get shot verry fast.


    I think you're right though. I need in fact more cc-units. I think i'll really kick one unit of shards and mount another 5 dark riders. That should also clear some points to spend on xbows for my charas.


    Wouldn't play shades with extra weapons by the way.... more attacks, but less strength. This is only good against a small slice of the big cake of possible enemys.

  • Wouldn't play shades with extra weapons by the way.... more attacks, but less strength. This is only good against a small slice of the big cake of possible enemys.


    Well, using them as warmachine hunters, they really profit from doubling their attacks and re-rolling to hit...

    Universal Battle: Aemkei81


    9k Druchii
    8k Khemri

  • Lore of Death would be nice... but i cant quite see the sorceress on a steed. And without one she is too slow to be really good with those snipers. No unit of riders is big enough to be a carrier and her protection would consume addiational points. Wouldn't know where to get them. But i see your point... I'll think about it.


    5 models is enough for one round though, and you have 4 units of carriers, so you can switch the unit if one of them suffers losses if necessary ;)

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    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Agreed, but they loose in potential against almost everything else... and you cant be shure you get to attack a warmashine. Might be the enemy doesn't even bring one. ^^
    My shades got shot every time i tried them out. They are really bad at taking hits. And i cant prevent them getting hit, since it is their job to fight without much cover from other units. Failed morale-checks, wiped out by bows or a a weak spell..... you name it, i saw it.


    I really know about their strenghts, it just seems i'm unable to get to actually use them.


    I still like the riders better. They even charge better.... in a second round of combat things could get tough, but i don't really want a second round of cc. Neither with shades nor with riders.


    AlandilLenard
    true enough about the carriers. I also keep forgetting that warlocks are not that easy to kill.

  • Hi guys!


    My sincere apologies for neglecting this forum, in particular when the official English topic was accepted. I promise I will make up for it with a few more reports! First thing first though. Let me add a few comments to the DE army list made by Winterwut!


    1. Characters


    They have the place in MSU armies for sure! There is no rule that tells you only the minimum of their number is good for this style. In fact, they are versatile and can be either a unit of one or join the regiment to boost its strength. That gives you plenty of options and you can tailor that to your advantage each game.


    Having said that I also want my characters to add something that no other unit can. It is easy in the case of BSB. re-rolls themselves are reason enough to include him. You can further tailor his equipment to provide support of other kind.


    The general also has to be there and Inspiring Presence is great thing as well. Very often a spell caster is a good choice just for the fact that she/he can provide ld bubble but also multi-task and cast spells.


    Flying characters in particular are interesting choice because of their speed and ability to ignore units in between the armies so they can go where they are needed the most. DE army book provides means to equip them very well. The question is, however, what the Lord brings to the table that a hero cannot? I want to highlight that I don't think it is a bad choice. I simply want to stress out it is important to a player to know what he wants from the army and particular character in it.


    2. Which MSU?


    There are different types of the MSU. WE were known for shooting and avoidance. Very annoying for the opponents and unfortunately for WE, not enjoyable. You might be a good tactician but such army might not win you many friends.


    I am not sure why it is like that but I have observed that people don't mind losing in combat as much as they loath to be shot to pieces. I guess that is also the reason why Dwarven castles are so hated.


    If that matters to you then you might also consider the type of the army you are trying to build. The way I see it your force is leaning towards that type. Not as annoying maybe but with very strong shooting component and magic can also be devastating. Multiple level 2 casters are quite dangerous.


    3. Champions


    I find them very important. Not in all units but if you can, add them. Very often you may face that tough character on large flier who can be unstoppable. Your small units may be too small to survive and he will pick his fights. But each champion gives you potentially one more turn due to challenge. That provides an opportunity for counter charge or simply slows the big nasty down and allows you to earn points elsewhere while he is losing his time. I would definitely add them in Executioners regiments.


    4. Ranked Units


    This is something I am currently pondering about. In my last tournament I had a situation where I could have broken the enemy if I had at least one rank. But my Archers and Sea Guard where not there to help. Because I used them in defensive role I am wondering if situation changed if I had 20 spears at my disposal. I actually had 2 of these when I started the journey. I wonder if that could have helped. Thoughts?


    Other than that the best way to keep the discussion going on the particular army list is to play a game and find out what worked and what not! In fact, that was the best part form me and I deliberately refused to make changes for a very long time as I wanted to test units under different conditions. One can change army list easily, learning from mistakes is a process, that takes a little longer :)


    I hope that helps and I look forward to reading about your eploits on the battle field. You know you want to trye these guys out! :)

  • Hey everyone, I have recently found a battle report written by somebody playing against Swordmaster at a tournament. So this is quite interesting to see the other side. Here it is: http://hoodlinghole.blogspot.c…014-aftermath-part-4.html


    Thinking about your army build, Swordmaster, I was wondering, why you took 15 Seaguards. Compared to the 15 bowmen I cannot see any advantage of them, because the special rule of the spears is not useful, if your are fighting with 3 ranks as a highelf. Isn't it? So you trade the longer range of the longbows in for merely nothing. What is the reason for that?

  • Hi arnadil,


    Thanks for linking the report written by Hoodling! It was a very interesting situation where you could read about the same game from two sides! It also shows that I haven't pasted too many reports recently so I should definitely pick up the pace again and provide something to read! My sincere apologies for the delay! Please, check two reports from Hammer of Dave 2 below!


    As to LSG it was always debated and pointed out they are simply useless. First thing is that I picked up LSG for their flexibility. The fact they can be overpriced for what they bring to the table is not a factor for me, even if I agree they should either be cheaper or have longbows instead. But we have what we have and that is not going to change soon (if at all).


    Second, my army evolves slowly. I wanted to play significant amount of games, even after transition from the old book to the new one, to see if I can make it work. My idea was, that with LSG I will be less inclined to sit tight and move more while having the option to use the bows at shorter range anyway. What is more, I used Metal magic back then so LSG benefited more from Glittering Robes than archers. I liked Metal lore a lot and I didn't change my Archmage for the Loremaster because he was not good enough. I did it because I wanted to try a new character and assuming that if I can't make him work with my style then I can always come back to the Archmage.


    Last but not least I spent a lot of time painting 5ed metal Sea Guard while I don't have that many 5ed metal archers to have 2 units of 15 or more. yes, the modelling aspect of the hobby matters to me and sometimes I take units I like even if justifying their presence is not that easy.


    With the new book it became even more difficult. No matal lore to support Sea Guard, Martial Prowess not really benefiting small units etc. I guess I simply kept them for the sentimental reason :) Even if once in a while 5+ armor save made a little difference it was like a nice bonus than more reliable factor.


    Unfortunately, I cannot reasonably defend the presence of the Sea Guard in my army any more. In fact, I am considering some changes to the army list that might see them go because I need to make room for other units I would like to include.


    Cheers!

  • Greetings!


    Game 4 from Hammer of Dave 2 with apologies for such a long delay!


    Game 4 - Dwarves - Sam - Blood and Glory


    This time I had to face one of the most difficult armies for me to play against - Dwarves! It was also a Blood and Glory scenario with modification. If one of the army was broken, the game continued but the player who broke the opponent got extra victory points. Sam, against whom I played this round, brought the following:


    Dwarves - Army List


    Deployment


    Dwarves - Turn 1



    Outcasts - Turn 1


    Dwarves - Turn 2


    Outcasts - Turn 2



    Dwarves - Turn 3


    Outcasts - Turn 3

  • Dwarves - Turn 4


    Outcasts - Turn 4



    Dwarves - Turn 5


    Outcasts - Turn 5


    Turn 6


    After-battle thoughts

  • Last game of the Hammer of Dave 2!


    Game 5 - Lizardmen - Simon - Battle Line


    Deployment


    Lizardmen - Turn 1


    Outcasts - Turn 1


    Lizardmen - Turn 2


    Outcasts - Turn 2


    Lizardmen - Turn 3


    Outcasts - Turn 3

  • Lizardmen - Turn 4


    Outcasts - Turn 4


    Lizardmen - Turn 5


    Outcasts - Turn 5


    Lizardmen - Turn 6


    Outcasts - Turn 6


    After-battle thoughts

  • Hammer of Dave 2 - Summary


    Hammer of Dave became a special tournament for me. Last year I attended it as a first local tournament. This year it was one of the "biggest" events as Dave tries to run different formats that often require smaller armies. But it is great to see quite nice attendance considering the fact the community in Canberra is relatively small. I like the fact there are new players attending too (although they might be new to me as unfortunately I don't play that often :().


    In any case a great Thank You! to Dave for organizing the event and for Good Games Canberra for running it! As always, awesome job guys! =D>


    In general I was very happy with the overall performance. I won 4 games and lost the last one very narrowly. It gave me a very respected 3rd place! The army did well, the general had some good but also not so great moments. I guess learning process never ends! :)


    It was good to test some new ideas. Here is the little summary of things I observed.


    1. Chariots - I am sure I haven't used them to their full potential yet. What I have found a little bit annoying is that feeling that against the armies with cannons it looks like giving away free points to the enemy. Yes, they don't shoot other things but in general I don't have good targets for the cannons anyway. By including chariots I suddenly provide them. And I need to position them accordingly so that loss of one or both does not cause a chain reaction of panic checks.


    They are good to table control and if used in pair they can do some damage. They can blunder too and against good armour S5 may not be enough (see the game against Bretonnia). When divided their potential is limited and depends greatly on that impact hits dice roll.


    After that experience I decided to get back to my heavy cavalry again as I feel more comfortable with them but at the same time I don't discard the chariots entirely. I admit I need a better plan on how to use them in my army.


    2. Heavy Cavalry - I don't have enough of them. It was clear in the last game in particular when the enemy decided to pull back and I was too slow to get them. Also, while Silver Helms are good as medium cavalry they are not as good as Dragon Princes (obviously!) and should not be used as such. There might be minor differences in how you use them but they might be significant too.


    Last but not least and definitely the most important thing. I would like to thank my opponents for 5 fantastic games. Dave, Adam, Rich, Sam and Simon, thanks a lot as without your fantastic attitude the whole event would not be as great. I am looking forward to meeting you on the field of battle again! Well don guys! =D>


    I hope you enjoyed the battle reports from that tournament and thanks a lot for reading! :)

  • Thanks again for the reports!


    Unfortunately, I cannot reasonably defend the presence of the Sea Guard in my army any more. In fact, I am considering some changes to the army list that might see them go because I need to make room for other units I would like to include.

    I think you made some very reasonable points for the hobby aspect is very important to warhammer. At least I can understand your decision here.

  • Dear Swordmaster,


    After beeing off the forums for quite some time (I had to work, work, work...) I enjoyed coming back and reading all of your battler reports i missed in the mean time! Everyday I could read at least one of your battle report. So nice! :]
    It was such a nice welcome back in the world of our hobby, I can not tell you how much I enjoyed it. :tongue:


    Thank you
    Tiny


    P.S. I am missing your CanCon reports here :P

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    DL: ...~20.000 Punkte .. (im Aufbau)
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  • Hi guys!


    @ arnadil


    That is, of course, an important aspect of the game and hobby too! I must add that I would happily keep using Sea Guard anyway, I just find it hard to justify their presence in game usefulness alone. The reason I decided to make changes to the army list (after CanCon tournament) was not because of that regiment. It was due to the fact I have found out I play too defensively and I need faster and combat orientated elements in my army.


    @ tiny


    I am glad you had a nice read! Indeed, I have noticed that you are not around so it is great to have you back! As to CanCon reports, I am going to try and update the topic soon! Checks some reports below! :)


    Cheers!

  • Greetings!


    Let me start with the introduction to the series of reports I plan to post about my games at the last tournament I attended.


    The biggest and definitely the longest tournament in Australia - CanCon! It is a great gaming event that attracts people from all over the place. Warhammer Fantasy Battle was this time the biggest tournament (as far as I know) with 130 players which is an absolute record since a very long time. Please, consider the fact that people were coming from really far away to attend it! It is not merely a trip to another city! :)


    Before I start to write about the players pack and format of the tournament I would like to highlight the situation that, in my opinion, shows how fantastic the community in Australia is. CanCon 2014 was initially planned for 80 players but due to popular demand the cap was increased at least twice to accommodate 130 gamers. However, it posed a tough logistics problem. There was not enough terrain in TO's disposal so they did what they could to provide some more. But it was still not enough. The only hope was to ask players and other club members for help. And help they did! In no time people started informing how much terrain they are going to bring and kept packing additional boxes and as a result there was not a single table empty or even lacking the terrain. The pieces were so varied that each table felt really unique and it made for a fantastic experience. I must admit this reply and selfless help of the players was something I have never heard of and I was very happy to attend a tournament where players with such fantastic attitude were to be met. Great job, guys!


    CanCon 2014 was, as tradition has it, 3 day event with 8 games total. A gaming marathon, if you ask me but totally worth it. This year TO's decided to use Swedish Comp and keep the armies in 10-16 brackets. Armies with comps 16+ were allowed but were treated as 16. There was also a battle comp in effect. You had to calculate the difference in composition between the armies. That was then added to the score of the softest army and deduced from the score of the hardest army, after the game.


    The link to the players pack: CanCon 2014 - Player's Pack


    The scenarios were in use too, sometimes with modifications and Watchtower was not played at all. What was also very useful and new was the fact that the draws were uploaded in the relevant topic so people could also check them on their mobile platforms. Also, the draw for the first round was done the day before so people could actually set up on the right table from the very beginning. An excellent idea! =D>


    I took my MSU HE of course. In the meantime I was wondering if I should change the list but in the end I made only a few here and there, more in the equipment of the Loremaster than in anything else. Hence, the list was similar to what I used at ConVic, Castle Assault and Masters. It proved to be a good if unforgiving list, the one I still enjoyed playing with and had painted. Here it is with details:


    Outcasts - CanCon 2014


    Larry the Loremaster - level 2, Talisman of Preservation, Earthing Rod, Dragon Helm - 310 (-22)
    Bob the Battle Standard Bearer - Dragon Armour, Halberd, Charmed Shield, Potion of Strength, Reaver Bow - 157 (-14)


    15 Archers - Full Command - 180 (-7)
    15 Sea Guard - Full Command - 210 (-6)
    5 Ellyrian Reavers - Spears, Bows, Musician - 105 (-4)
    5 Ellyrian Reavers - Spears, Bows, Musician - 105 (-6)


    5 Dragon Princes - Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame - 175 (-10)
    5 Dragon Princes - Musician - 155 (-10)
    12 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Musician - 176 (-6)
    12 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Musician - 176 (-6)
    10 White Lions - Full Command, Gleaming Pennant - 165 (-6)
    10 White Lions - Full Command, Standard of Discipline - 175 (-6)


    Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - 70 (-7)
    Great Eagle - 50 (-5)
    Great Eagle - 50 (-9)
    5 Sisters of Avelorn - 70 (-6)
    5 Sisters of Avelorn - 70 (-6)


    Army Total: 2399


    Number of longbows (15), Number of bows (25/2 = 12.5), Number of Bows of Avelorn (10), Bolt thrower (10), Reaver Bow (5) = 52.5 - 2 bows more than 50 (-2)


    Earthing Rod (-3), Reaver Bow (-2), Banner of Discipline (-4)


    300 - 147 = 153 --> Swedish Comp Score: 15.3


    Not the hardest but not the softest list out there either!


    I hope to write reports in regular intervals and I will try to aim for two per week but with 8 games it is a lot to write about! :) Because of that I prepared a teaser!


    Game 1 - Jonathan - Warriors of Chaos - Dawn Attack



    Game 2 - Ben - Lizardmen - Battle Line



    Game 3 - Johannes - Wood Elves - Meeting Engagement



    Game 4 - Greg - Empire - Battle Line



    Game 5 - Chris - Lizardmen - Blood and Glory



    Game 6 - James - Dwarves - Battle Line



    Game 7 - Jason - Dwarves - Battle for the Pass



    Game 8 - Michael - High Elves - Battle Line



    Stay tuned! :)