5. Gegnerwoche der Hochelfen - Zwerge

5. Gegnerwoche der Hochelfen - Zwerge

Hochmut v.s. Knielosigkeit! Der Bartkrieg tobt in dieser Gegnerwoche.

1) Mit wie vielen Punkten spielt ihr meistens?

1500-3000

2) Wie oft habt ihr schon gegen diesen Gegner gespielt (ungefähr)?
10mal

3) Wie ist euer grundlegender Plan, wenn es gegen diesen Gegner geht?

Kriegsmaschinen eliminieren und so schnell wie möglich in den Nahkampf, wenn möglich durch Magie gebufft.

4) Welche Einheiten muss man unbedingt gegen diesen Gegner einpacken - und warum?

Riesenadler (perfekte KM-Jäger), Weisse Löwen und Phönixgarde (können beide Beschuss wegstecken)

5) Welche Einheiten stellt man besser nicht gegen diesen Gegner auf - und warum?

Bogenschützen (richten keinen Schaden an und fallen wie die Fliegen), Seegarde (richtet im Fernkampf keinen Schaden an), Kavallerie (bleibt zu schnell hängen, allenfalls kann man Grenzreiter als KM-Jäger aufstellen) sowie

Streitwagen (werden sofort weggeschossen, da brauchts nicht mal einen Kanone)

6) Welche Auf- oder Ausrüstung/Lehre der Magie ist gegen diesen Gegner besonders effektiv?

Zauberbanner (ich finde man kann auch gegen Zwerge gut zaubern), Lehre des Lebens (wie immer), Lehre des Todes (Purpursonne!) und Lehre der Schatten (Buffs), Banner der Eile (damit kann man ev. sogar mal Schwertmeister nach vorne rennen lassen), ausserdem

bei Standardschlachten noch den Splitter der Sternenkrone (eine Schussphase weniger kann spielentscheidend sein)

7) Welche Auf- oder Ausrüstung/Lehre der Magie nutzt gegen diesen Gegner überhaupt nichts?
Alles was einen tiefen Moralwert des Gegners voraussetzt (z.B. Maske von Iek!) und natürlich alles was man zur Steigerung des Bannpotentials einsetzen kann.

8 )Was stellt dieser Gegner gewöhnlich gegen uns auf?

Steinschleudern, Orgelkanone, Musketenschützen, Klankrieger und Langbärte (alles mit Zweihändern, da er sowieso zuletzt zuschlägt), Langbart-Grenzläufer (sehr böse) und natürlich Runenschmiede!

9) Gegen welche Einheiten des Gegners tun wir uns besonders schwer?

Steinschleudern und grosse Zwergenregimenter im Allgemeinen (die bleiben einfach ewig stehen, zumindest wenn wir sie mit Kernregimentern angehen müssen)

10) Welche Einheiten des Gegner liegen uns gut?

Im Prinzip können wir alles knacken, so lange wir mit Elite darauf losgehen können. Aber unsere Kernauswahlen sehen nur schon gegen Zwergenklankrieger nicht viel Land.

Es braucht immer Unterstützung oder magische Buffs. Deshalb bin ich auch gegen Zwerge noch nie ohne Magier aus dem Haus.

11) Vor welcher Taktik / welchem Trick müssen wir bei diesem Gegner besonders auf der Hut sein - und wie können wir sie kontern?
Ausser Langbart-Grenzläufern habe ich noch keine Konter fahren müssen. Diese muss man entweder ignorieren (manchmal kann man schlicht davonrennen und sie kommen zu spät an) oder man

muss sie halt mit einem Elite-Regiment (Schwertmeister, Garde oder Weisse Löwen) angehen.

12) Wie kann uns das Spielfeld gegen diesen Gegner helfen?
Alles was Deckung und die Magie verstärkt gibt ist perfekt! Ausserdem sollte man schauen, dass der Gegner nicht alle Hügel mit seinen KM besetzen kann.

13) Welche Szenarien eignen sich besonders gut gegen diesen Gegner und welche nicht?
Wir haben bisher kaum Szenarien gespielt. Aber dasjenige mit dem Turm (Zwerge sind wohl kaum zu vertreiben) sowie der Pass (extrem langer Weg zum Gegner) liegen uns sicher nicht so.

14) Wie beurteilt ihr das generelle Kräfteverhältnis gegen diesen Gegner und bei welcher Punktezahl kippt es ggf. um?

Ab 2000 Punkte werden die Spiele einfacher, da wir langsam aus dem Vollen schöpfen können. Darunter sieht man gegen einen guten Zwergen vermutlich nicht viel Land, da unser Kern einfach zu schwach ist.

15) Wie gut passt der Warhammerfluff zu dieser Paarung? Wie sieht der Hintergrund für die Schlacht aus?

Perfekt...neben Chaos und Dunkelelfen DER klassische Gegner der HE

Eine der besten Zusammenfassungen die ich zu dem Thema bisher gelesen habe wollte ich euch nicht vorenthalten:

Zitat

Dwarves can be rough, but not impossible. I have a long history fighting a ton of different Dwarf players, styles and builds through multiple editions so I feel good commenting on them.

-Don't trickle in. Send everything you've got. One big mistake I see players make is to hang back a bit, hoping to deal with the machines peacemeal before walking into range of Organ Guns or charges. This is almost never advisable, since Organ Guns are pretty much tailor-made to annihilate small units sent in one at a time. If you overwhelm the Dwarf player with targets, you'll definitely take casualties, but you'll also cross the table with most of your force intact. If you have Fast Cav, use their Vanguard and full movement to potentially threaten warmachines right away. If you have fliers, send them up to positions where they can charge warmachines Turn 2 if they live long enough to do it. For slower units like infantry, make the most of their march and be sure they have clear lanes of advance so they're not spending extra turns marching further than they have to.

-Don't underestimate your own shooting. A longbow isn't great, but it still wounds a machine on a 6. Same with Sisters, same with Bolt Throwers firing a Repeater shot. A decent volume of fire can take out Dwarf warmachines, and this is especially true for the machines that generally only have 3 crew, like Organ Guns or Cannons with Master Rune of Forging (plenty of Dwarf players skip the engineer upgrade here, since it doesn't do anything to improve the lethality of the weapon and the MRoForging helps prevent misfires.) Taking out something like an Organ Gun is huge, and may even scare a Dwarf opponent into targeting units like Archers or Bolt Throwers, thereby giving your valuable combat troops a breather.

-Don't be careless during deployment, and pay attention to your opponent. Dwarves have very, very few deployment drops. They will almost always be completely done with deployment before their opponent is. This means they tend to get the +1 for First Turn, but also means they reveal their whole battleline before most armies are done deploying chaff. Use this to your advantage to set your combat units, shooting units, and warmachine hunters in the best position possible for a direct advance straight across the table. Similarly, seeing all your opponent's drops means you'll know where his big combat blocks are, which will help you engage them. This brings me to...

-Huge blocks with great weapons. Most Dwarf players are running multiple huge horde formation blocks of various Dwarf troop types, most commonly Warriors, Rangers, Hammerers. Warriors and Rangers are practically identical, except Rangers can Scout. Watch out for these guys, big time. You always want to be mindful of big, open gaps on your flanks where an opponent can drop down a unit of 30+ great weapon badasses. Always try to keep your flanks insulated using chaff troops, so that your opponent has to either deploy rangers in the middle of the table (where they can be isolated and destroyed quickly, since your troops don't have to go too far to reach them) or else in the Dwarf player's standard deployment zone (in which case they're just like one additional block you have to kill, no biggie.) That being said, these are the easy VP in a Dwarf army. They're rough, but much easier to break once you put pressure on them than the more elite Dwarf troops. That being said...

Hammerers are a big problem. The issue with Hammerers is that they not only hit harder than regular Dwarves, but they're also Stubborn. This basically means you have to kill them to the absolute last man to get VP from them, and it also means they can easily tie up your blocks while other Dwarf units sweep in on the flank and beat the hell out of your troops. Don't engage Hammerers unless you are confident of killing them, and confident you can have multiple uninterrupted turns in which to do it. Making it through a hailstorm of warmachines, only to be caught up on Hammerers and pounded into the mud is not a good way to win games. Aim for non-Stubborn troops instead, like Warriors, and either avoid Hammerers or save them for last.

In terms of killing Dwarf blocks themselves, you really have to capitalize on the fact that you'll be able to strike before them. If the Dwarves are in horde formation for maximum attacks, pile as much into those wide frontages as you possibly can to murder as many Dwarves per combat phase as is possible before they get a chance to swing those great weapons in return. If they're arrayed in deep ranks to maximize Steadfast, than try to out-grind them with a unit like Phoenix Guard or well-armored characters. If a Frost Phoenix managed to get across the table, they're money here. Turning Strength 5 great weapons into Strength 4 nerfbats is good for all our Toughness 3 units.

-Be mindful of the formations of your troops. Since Dwarves like template weapons, it's best to deploy your troops in long, thin formations to minimize the amount of models hit by grudge throwers. Note here that it's very easy to play some mindgames with your oppponent... For example, if you have Banner of the World Dragon on your White Lions, you can deploy them in a brick and make them a tempting target for your opponent. If your opponent doesn't know they have BotWD, he may be tempted to take that shot, which you can easily save on your 2+ Ward and force an opponent to waste a grudge thrower shot. Similarly, don't show your flank to a cannon or bolt thrower. Enfilading shots aren't pleasant. Dwarf players are talking about beefing up the number of bolt throwers they have in their lists as a direct response to us getting units like Phoenixi, so make sure your units aren't arrayed deep. It's not fun to have a ton of Dragon Princes skewered by a bolt thrower once they're done with your Phoenix or Dragon.

-Get comfortable with 6-dicing spells. When it comes to magic, you probably won't get a spell off ever since Dwarves will reliably have more Dispel Dice than you have Power Dice in almost any matchup, not to mention multiple Dispel Scrolls. Either shoot for Irresistible Force, or spam a lot of small spells and hope your opponent rolls poorly. Ultimately, IF is the only way to guarantee spell success.

-Use redirectors. As mentioned with the Hammerers, Dwarves specialize in punching holes in an enemy, stopping them with a nasty durable block, then coming in to flank with another block. The best way to ensure this doesn't happen is to use redirectors to delay that flanking block, giving you more time to hack your way through your first target. With all the pressure being applied from warmachines, note that you may not be able to use your classic "redirectors" in the conventional sense, i.e. Reavers or Eagles. In all likelihood, your Reavers/Eagles will already be dead or will be busy trying to handle warmachines. You may have to sacrifice a unit of Archers, a chariot, or something more expensive since all your Redirectors may be a greasy smear on the table. This may seem like a waste, but big Dwarf blocks are worth a lot of Victory Points. Killing them while keeping your own primary blocks alive is very important.

-Learn to stop cannonballs. If you play against enough cannons, you find ways to stall their effectiveness. Previously, most High Elf lists didn't mind cannons too much since our lists either didn't have anything worth shooting a cannon at, or (in the case of a Star Dragon, for example) had a 2+ Ward versus Flaming. Now, with Phoenixes, bolt throwers, and other high points-per-wound models on the table, cannons are a bit scarier than they were. When setting up terrain and deploying troops, be watching for buildings and linear obstacles which will both stop cannon shots and buy your monsters or chariots a bit more breathing room. Similarly, expendable monsters (like Phoenixes) can be used to screen more expensive characters that you really don't want getting shot by cannons (Anointed on Phoenix, Star Dragon, etc.) If the first monster eats the cannonball and doesn't die, the cannonball stops dead in its tracks. This way, a monster can literally be used as a meatshield for troops hiding behind it. Also, turn your chariot bases and monsters sideways during deployment. It increases the likelihood that a cannonball will bounce over them, rather than smacking directly onto that long aircraft-carrier shaped chariot base.

-Coping with Organ Guns. These things are such a pain... The auto-hitting is dangerous. However, they're also going to be working overtime against a High Elf force now. With Reavers, chariots, Core Silverhelms, Dragon Prince busses, Phoenixes, and Banner of the World Dragon-protected infantry blocks all scurrying across the field, and with the Organ Guns providing the only reliable counter to a lot of those units, you really want to force these things to split their targets and get across the table fast to give them as few turns of shooting as possible. If you shoot arrows or launch Pit of Shades or Purple Sun, these guys are a good target. Keep them busy firing at Reavers, and your main combat regiments stand a much better chance of reaching the enemy.

-If facing the Anvil of Doom, you need to be planning your opponent's moves in advance every time. Since the Anvil allows a Dwarf unit to make a free move or charge out of sequence, you have to act like all Dwarf units can charge 360 degrees, can reform for free before charging, or can add 6 inches of Movement to their existing movement. This can make it very difficult to anticipate how a Dwarf unit will come at you, but redirectors can make a lot of difference here. Just be careful that the Dwarf unit doesn't blast the redirector down in the shooting phase, and then use the Anvil to move a unit that you had previously thought blocked. That's never fun. Also, stay away from table edges, and be doubly afraid of Rangers. It's possible for a Dwarf player to bring on a unit of Miners, or deploy a unit of Rangers, and get them in your face before you even have a chance to respond. In such situations, don't be afraid to flee as a reaction. They're Dwarves, so they're still slow, no matter how many free rounds of Movement they get

-Similarly, be careful with positioning. Since Dwarf units are so slow anyways, a lot of Dwarf players won't mind declaring charges that seem impossibly long in the hopes that they'll get lucky. Be very aware of charge lanes and distance to your target when approaching Dwarf units, and don't be afraid to run a small support unit in front of your primary combat block if it happens to be afraid of eating a Dwarf charge. At the very least, you'll force the Dwarf to hit the support unit, annihilate it, and then you'll be engaging it in your turn, with the possibility add in friendly units for flank or supporting charges.

That about does it...

Also, don't really bother with Cloak of the Beards. The Dwarf community over at Bugman's are all peeing their pants about it, but honestly this thing is so situational I'm not sure I'd take it even if I was trying to build a list to kill Dwarves. Focus on using your support troops well, getting creative with small units that don't ordinarily function as redirectors/warmachine hunters but still could in a pinch, and try not to worry too much about casualties as you go in. It's inevitable that you'll lose models, but if you define a useful role for everything in your force and get them across the table quickly, it's usually possible to overwhelm Dwarf ranged power and start gathering VP in the second half of the game. Be very aware of attack types (Flaming, Magical) and be very aware of which of our units get saves against such damage (Dragon Armor, Banner of the World Dragon). Use our speed.

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Quelle: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=46584

1) Mit wie vielen Punkten spielt ihr meistens?
2000- 2500
2) Wie oft habt ihr schon gegen diesen Gegner gespielt (ungefähr)?
2 mal
3) Wie ist euer grundlegender Plan, wenn es gegen diesen Gegner geht?
schnell in den Nahkampf mit bogen Kriegsmaschinen ausschalten
4) Welche Einheiten muss man unbedingt gegen diesen Gegner einpacken - und warum?
-
5) Welche Einheiten stellt man besser nicht gegen diesen Gegner auf - und warum?
schwer zu beantworten Phönixe in Verbindung mit reiterrei können schnell im Nahkampf sein können aber auch schnell mal erschosen werden
6) Welche Auf- oder Ausrüstung/Lehre der Magie ist gegen diesen Gegner besonders effektiv?
himmel (komet) tot
7) Welche Auf- oder Ausrüstung/Lehre der Magie nutzt gegen diesen Gegner überhaupt nichts?
-
8 )Was stellt dieser Gegner gewöhnlich gegen uns auf?
kannonen gyurokopter blöcke
9) Gegen welche Einheiten des Gegners tun wir uns besonders schwer?
gyrokoppter bremsen uns aus und machen unseren blöcken grossen schaden
10) Welche Einheiten des Gegner liegen uns gut?
klankrieger
11) Vor welcher Taktik / welchem Trick müssen wir bei diesem Gegner besonders auf der Hut sein - und wie können wir sie kontern?
ballerburg und massiver beschuss manchmal briengd der wegstein was
12) Wie kann uns das Spielfeld gegen diesen Gegner helfen?
viel Deckung (wald und turm) wenig Hügel
13) Welche Szenarien eignen sich besonders gut gegen diesen Gegner und welche nicht?
unerwartetes aufernandertreffen da ist mann schneller im nahkampf
14) Wie beurteilt ihr das generelle Kräfteverhältnis gegen diesen Gegner und bei welcher Punktezahl kippt es ggf. um?
Zwerge sind immer ein schweres spiel ich glaube der Vorteil liegt bei den Zwergen.
15) Wie gut passt der Warhammerfluff zu dieser Paarung? Wie sieht der Hintergrund für die Schlacht aus?
-