Zitat
Yes, one ruleset for both systems, but each rulebook is still written individually with whole sections skipped or altered (i.e. obviously no tanks for fantasy). The text is certainly not a copy and paste job with differently flavoured examples but individually crafted for each system. Some rules have the same function but different names. You wouldn’t expect the rules to apply to the other system if you had only one rulebook to judge. There is are no labels that say “Here ends the generic rule section. The following is 40k specific”. In the fantasy rules everything is explained through the eyes of units in tight formation which do not exist in 40k. Skirmish units are the exception to the rule in fantasy, where in 40k everything is in skirmish formation and everything is explained that way from the get go. There isn’t even a name for this formation, it is just the default. But if every unit in fantasy would be skirmishers, it wouldn’t matter if you play the game with the 40k or fantasy rules. Everything would work exactly the same.
Another example: units in formation do not get +1 A on the charge, so this bonus is not mentioned until fighting in skirmish formation is introduced. In the 40k rulebook, the bonus is mentioned right in the assault section - not as an exception, but as the rule because there are no other formations in 40k. Different way to introduce it, but the same outcome if you play fantasy with all skirmishers.
90:10. Fantasy adapts more 40k elements than vice versa. 40k is only a minor update, Fantasy is a major shakeup and the army books stay only barely viable.
Certainly. But I hope this will die down eventually like the random charge distance controversy.
The most irritating is definitely that you can start with two units facing each other directly, move your unit in the movement phase into the enemy’s side arc and charge the unit in the assault phase. Even though the enemy can change its facing to take the charge head on, it turns the whole positioning game upside down. Fantasy is still all about good unit placement, unit synergy and manoeuvres, but it all plays out very differently.
All infantry units move 6”. There are no movement values anymore.
That’s the only one. Units have an armour save profile now, but this is mostly coherent with the old system - only shields work a little bit different now. The old calculated system is even explained in the armoury section. It is more beginner-friendly now. The armour saves are simply precalculated now.
R.I.P.
The rules are 99,99% the same as in 40k. If you come from 40k you can play fantasy with minimal effort.
A major one for both system is, that you march/run in the movement phase and charge in the melee phase.
No, even more random. Fantasy uses the 40k system, but there are not so many different kinds of random movement. Random movement is either D6” or 2D6”, with same rules adding or subtracting dice from the pool. You always discards the lowest ones. There is a reminder that rolls are doubled afterwards, but I don’t remember any instance where this is relevant.
Basic 6” movement for infantry including monstrous infantry and monsters. Cavalry is 12” Movement now. March is D6”. Charge is 2D6”. Consolidations are, “two D6, pick one”. Retreats are normal march moves, so 6+D6”.
Terrain subtracts one D6 from the pool to a minimum of 1. Normal movement changes from 6” to “roll 2D6 and pick one” in inches. Moves in the assault/melee phase are never affected by difficult terrain, so charges are always D6”+D6”.
Since run is only one D6” it is not affected by terrain. units with fleet and move through cover can roll two D6 and pick one.
No, a charge through terrain can cause dangerous terrain tests and affects the Initiative in both systems now.
Fleet adds one D6 to all random pools and you can pick one. Move through cover cancels difficult terrain, but not other kinds of terrain. Strider cancels dangerous and difficult terrain completely.
Yes, Fleet lets you roll three dice for movement trough terrain, two dice for march and three for charge. It also influences Consolidations.
After a combat if you are no longer bound. You can use this move to charge other units or to spread out. But consolidations are only allowed in your own turn.
Cavalry is not hindered by terrain but must make dangerous terrain tests. 12” moves are never replaced with a random one as far as I can see. They either ignore difficult terrain completely or treat it as dangerous.
Flee reaction is a normal retreat. You let the enemy move into contact and break from the combat at the start of the melee phase. It works as if you had lost a combat, but at the start of the phase. You use the 40k rules, so have to win a I roll-off to flee. You move unit 6”+D6” immediately after breaking. If the charging unit pursuits and you are caught, the unit is destroyed. In either case the enemy unit can make a consolidation and even fight a new combat this phase.
Yes, it is back.
Yes, it is still in. 12” now and still a ld-roll required. One of the cases where 40k steals a fantasy rule.
Yes and no. You are right, the dwarf rule would be pointless otherwise, but this isn’t a criteria. There are dozens of rules, even in the Wood Elf army book, that become obsolete.
Yes, the dancers for example.
Retreating units simply march in consecutive turns.
Ogres are faster than Dwarfs. Units with monstrous (It’s a special rule and not a unit type now) have the Fleet rule, formerly known as Swiftstride.
Swiftstride is still a special rule, but it only reads “gives the unit fleet”. In 10th edition it is likely gone.
Only if the 40k term fits the fantasy setting.
Dangerous terrain is auto-wound on 1. All units can stalk and replace movement with 1D6” and ignore dangerous terrain during the move or march.
Yes, both systems. Everything affects both systems. Run is the same as march but with a different name. I don’t state this explicitly.
Charging through terrain gives a unit -2 I in both systems. There are no assault grenade equivalents in fantasy, but units with spears attack with +2 I in the first round of combat. But terrain doesn’t slow a charge anymore.
To be frank, I don’t remember, it’s 40k. I think they negate the bonus and don’t give +2 flat out..
Yes, they move equally fast through terrain, but jump infantry don’t have to test for dangerous terrain. It’s not faster but safer.
There are no jump troops in fantasy. But in 40k, they can use the skyborne rule in every phase, but must make dangerous terrain tests if they start or end their movement in terrain. They can choose to move like infantry. But they do not get the impact hits if they don’t use their packs in the assault phase. So it’s basically back to 5th edition.
Manoeuvre rules are really simple. Units in formation move as if they were a single model. The unit pivots on the spot and moves in any way it likes even sideways, but cannot move though other models. A charge with a block is a little bit more complicated.
You charge in the melee phase, so can use the movement phase to bring the unit in position. You roll the distance and check if you can reach the enemy. If you are and the enemy chooses stand & shoot, you resolve the shooting and the enemy unit aligns with the charging unit if the terrain and other units permit it. Then you move the unit into contact. The movement distance doesn’t matter.
Yes, there are other restrictions. you have to charge the facing you were after the pivot of the defending unit, so most of the time the front. You have to attack with your front. You have to bring as many enemy and friendly models into contact as possible. You have to move the shortest way possible.
I think directly towards your centre, but he can avoid this if he chooses Hold reaction. There is no closing the gap, because you align the unit directly during the move.
Hold works only for units in a tight formation, so only in fantasy.
There are rules for charging in loose formation. It is basically the same but with more models. The defender doesn’t align. There are 6” pile-in moves if the charged unit is a skirmish unit.
No, skirmishers don’t have to remain in the front facing. If a model in the side is the nearest one, it can be charged. The facing rule is only for blocks.
Units in loose formation move exactly like 40k units, both during a charge and the pile-in move.
Before the charge move, you can move your unit in the movement phase into position.
No, pivots do not cost movement. Units move like a large single model, and single models can pivot freely.
The fantasy rules do not care for exact or long-winded movements anymore, as long as the rules are kept simple. If the outcome looks sufficiently authentic, who cares for micromanaging every inch? I am sure the design team is aware of this, there is a box that gives some in-character explanations for seemingly impossible maneuvers.
If the defender cannot align and the attacker cannot be placed in the front because the unit would collide with a building or something, the attacking unit botched its charge, loses its formation. You then use the 40k rules and move the models one by one. A unit without formation is doomed in combat.
He don’t have to. The unit can Hold and retain its position, but cannot stand and shoot in this case. It can only hold if all involved units are in tight formation.
40k units can only Stand and Fire, which does not have a name in 40k because it is kind of the default, or Flee. Only blocks can Hold.
Yes, a single unit cannot flank no matter where it is positioned. But they can deny stand and shoot, which has no range limitation anymore. But the positioning works as an implicit range limitation. If the enemy is close enough to pseudo-flank you in the movement phase, it is a good indicator that he was near enough that you are not be able to fire.
Shooter has to win roll-off D6+leader’s I in order to shoot at attacker. This is also true for overwatch, which is the same as stand and shoot btw. Wounds do not count towards combat resolution.
If the roll is equal you can shoot.
If the enemy tries to crab walk out of your front arc, you move your unit in the movement phase to face him again and charge him in the melee phase. If he hides somewhere where you cannot see him even after a move, you cannot charge him.
Units in loose formation do not have arcs.
Blocks still have to see the enemy at the start of the melee phase to charge. In most situations this is trivial, but if you want to charge another unit during a consolidation, it becomes an issue.
But it won’t do you any good, because he can attack you from 4 ranks/files if he is in formation and you are not. Units in loose formation are easy to manoeuvre, but there is a reason that units fight in tight formation. They are better suited for combat. If a unit in a block attacks a unit in loose formation, every model in contact and in 2” of a model in contact can fight. That means 4 row on a 25mm base, even to the side. If the unit in loose formation attacks the front, only models in contact and models in contact with a fighter can attack. That means the equivalent of 2 rows at best. So, the unit in formation has approximately double the attacks.
No, there is a difference between loose formation and skirmish formation. Every unit can assume a 40k-like 2” distance-no facing-formation at any time: loose formation. But there are some drawbacks. If fighting against other unit, every model in 2” of a fighting model can attack you if you are in loose formation. Against a block of 20 Black Guard thats 40 attacks coming your way. Skirmishers are better at fighting without formation than usual units and have a front to all directions. There is a distinction between a proper formation -even if it is a light one- and no formation at all. You have to protect your flanks from them, because if there is a skirmisher in your side, all his buddies in 2” can attack.
Ok, let me explain it another way: Even if skirmishers look like a horde, they fight in a coordinated fashion. They form primitive shield walls and support each other. Skirmisher are deployed in loose formation. Skirmishers have a 360 degree front arc, they can use their weapons and shields in all directions and can only be attacked by two ranks. Skirmishers get +1 Attack when they charge other skirmishers or units in loose formation. They don’t have to see an enemy they want to charge.
Units in loose formation have no facings. They can see 360 degree. They cannot use shields and other weapons to their full potential and can always be attacked by all models in 2” behind the first rank, so usually 4 ranks of infantry and 3 ranks of cavalry and monstrous infantry.
Yeah, my mistake. I might have used the terms loose formation and skirmish formation interchangeably which they are not.
Fighting without a formation has some advantages, though. You don’t have facing and can charge in any direction and are better protected against mortars.
In our world not.If there were as many dragons, warp flame throwers and skull catapults in our history, loose formation would have been used way earlier.
Only blocks with an enemy in their front facing benefit from this. If you get flanked by a large unit, all models in 2” of the first row can attack you, but you can only attack back with two rows because you are in his front facing while he is not.
Skirmish is a special rule. Every unit can fight in loose formation, but skirmishers get the advantages I mentioned yesterday. And I like to add one important thing - units without the skirmish rule must re-roll all successful panic tests and do not benefit from the battle standard bearer or the general..
No, it is just me. I am not good at this it seems. It is really easy: If you attack the front of a regiment, two ranks attack. If you attack anything else (side, rear, loose formation), everything in 2” of a fighting model attacks.
Yes, only units in formation and certain unit types (monsters and buildings in fantasy, vehicles in 40k) have facings.
If a model or unit has facings or arc, it is 90 degree from base edges or if it has no square base the centre of the model.
Yes, I think 40k vehicles, too.
There are four formations in fantasy and no formations in 40k. Skirmish units in fantasy behave exactly like a 40k unit. They get +1 attack on the charge against other skirmishers, their facing doesn’t matter, they shoot in all directions, etc.
No.
Block, Wedge, Turtle and Skirmish.
Block is your standard block. 5-15 wide and as deep as you like.
No, you cannot form a conga line, it has to be 5 wide. If there is a bottleneck, you can forfeit your formation and move in loose formation past the obstacle. You can reform at the start of your turn if you pass a ld-test or automatically if you have a musician.
Wedge is like the Bretonnian lance formation, but you only get ranks from rows that are at least 5 wide. You need 15 models to form even a single rank. All models in the front triangle that have an opposite enemy model can attack. But only the front models, there are never supporting attacks from models in 2” or models in contact in wedge formation. There are no side arcs and you get a bonus to break through the enemy formation.
Yes, you can. Normally, if you cause twice as many wounds as there are enemy ranks, you make a S-roll-off. If you win, the enemy loses his formation and will suffer next round of combat as a result. Units in wedge formation only need to deal more wounds than the number of ranks to force this test.
The best S value without weapon modifiers.
Both sides can lose their formation at the same time. The combat has obviously dissolved into a butchering at this point.
Yes, there are many roll-offs now.
For roll-offs and tests you can always use the profile value of the champion or the best character just like a leadership test. If there is no character, you take the best value of the normal models. For to-wound purposes you still use the majority straight away.
Yes, I was a little bit sloppy there.
Turtle is a square formation (or as square as possible) that cannot move. Rank is equal to number of rings with five or more models. There is only a front facing.
Only at the start of the movement phase. Ld-test required except you have a musician. Breaking up your formation is easier. You can do that at any time without ld-test.
Tired, sore fingers.
That’s hard. I guess the new movement rules, the weapon profiles, the combat resolution, the different formations and the shooting rules. On the one hand fantasy is a whole new game, on the other hand, it is surprisingly similar to 8th edition. Some things are resolved differently, but the result is often the same. The balance is shattered, though.
Weapons have a more detailed profile now. A high strength does not modify the armour save by itself. But lot of weapons have armour save modifiers, called piercing. These are not AP values, they do not negate armour. This is one of the major differences that still exist between fantasy and 40k. The rules for the weapon types have changed considerably, some weapons like the spear do not resemble their 8th edition counterpart at all.
I can do that for the basic weapons, but there are too many weapons in 9th edition to recall them all. An imperial bihander is not the same as a giant choppa rulewise. There are obviously lots of orc and empire weapons in the rulebook. There are only a dozen weapons from other races, mainly those that needed an update. Slayer weapons are +1S, Piercing -2, two-handed and bows of avelorn are always -1 Piercing for example.
Hand weapon: Parry (improves shield ward save by one), Spear: Piercing -1, Reach (+2 Initiative in first round of combat against front), Spearwall (additional piercing -1 against charging cavalry, war beasts, flying units in front), Halberd is +1S, Piercing -1, Spearwall, two-handed, Two-hand weapon +2S, Piercing -1, two handed, this is only the generic weapon, there are two-handed swords, axes, hammers, scythes and pikes, all with different profiles
Flail +2S, two handed, lance: +2 S, Piercing -3, in round of charge or in any round against loose formation, cavalry spear: +1S, Piercing -2, in round of charge or in any round against loose formation. There are many more weapons, often variants of the basic weapons.
There is enough room for another charge.
Yes.
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